Roger Tirrell, baptized 9 Nov. 1620, St Magnus The Martyr, London

by Conrad Terrill and Nancy Tyrrel Theodore, 9 Nov. 2010

Postscript (23 Apr. 2012): We have learned that this Roger Tirrell died in 1625, in St Mary Whitechapel parish in London, so he is no longer a Possible Roger1 for us. See Roger Tirrell baptized 1620—the final chapter for details.

(Summary of additions made after 9 Nov. 2010)

This new and very interesting record has come to light as the result of a continuing indexing effort by the London Metropolitan Archives (LMA) and the Guildhall Library Manuscripts Section, working in partnership with The indexing has just recently progressed far enough to point us to this record, and others related to it. We already knew of Roger Tirrell b. 1592 (see our earlier research report "Roger Tirrell, born 19 Nov. 1592, Petersfield, county Southampton (now Hampshire)"), but we did not know that he and wife Hellen Layton had a son named Roger. We present in this report what is new, most of which we learned in the last week of October, in Salt Lake City, Utah. Conrad's wife Judy went there to attend a week-long business convention, and Conrad tagged along to spend the week at the Latter-day Saints Family History Library (FHL). The discovery could probably have been made at home by checking's London, England, Baptism, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 database, one we check periodically; but Conrad made it at FHL while preparing to search for Roger1 records. Conrad was very lucky to have been at the FHL just when this discovery turned up. With considerable guidance from Nancy (via email) he found a number of other relevant records, many of which would have been difficult to find without going to Salt Lake City, or to London. We'll start with a complete presentation of the records for the family of Roger (b. 1592) and Hellen/Ellen, including those about which we already knew:

The marriage: Roger Tirrell, haberdasher of London, and Hellen Layton, widow, were married 7 Dec. 1618, at St Botolph Bishopsgate. (old)

The children's baptisms:

Anne Tyrrey, daughter of Roger & Ellen, bapt. 21 Nov. 1619, St Magnus The Martyr. (JPEG, 565 KB)

(Note: No other "Tyrreys" in SMTM bapt./marr./bur. registers of this time.)

Roger Tirrell, son of Roger & Hellen, bapt. 9 Nov. 1620, St Magnus The Martyr. (JPEG, 513 KB)

John Terrell, son of Roger & Ellen, bapt. 11 Apr. 1622, St Magnus The Martyr. (JPEG, 528 KB)

Joyce Terrell, daughter of Roger & Ellin, bapt. 23 Jul. 1623, St Magnus The Martyr. (JPEG, 528 KB)

Mary Terrell, daughter of Roger and Ellyn, bapt. 31 Oct. 1624, St Mary Whitechapel. (old)

The burials:

John Terrill, buried 13 Jul. 1625, St Mary Whitechapel. (JPEG, 516 KB)

Roger Terrill, buried 14 Jul. 1625, St Mary Whitechapel. (Same image, but Sr.? or Jr.?)

Joyce Terrall, buried 8 Aug. 1625, St. Mary Whitechapel (JPEG, 517 KB)

The year 1625 was one of the three worst plague years in 17th C. London—second only to the Great Plague, which lasted more than a year, actually, (from late 1664 to early 1666), and took the lives of perhaps more than 75,000 of a total population estimated at 450,000. The plague of 1625 took over 40,000 lives, and the plague of 1603 took over 30,000. Poorer parishes on the outskirts of London were hardest-hit, and St Mary, Whitechapel, in the East End, just outside the Wall, was one such.A,B Roger and Ellen's family suffered badly, but so did many others in the area. The critically important piece of information for our purposes, which is missing from the St Mary Whitechapel burial records, is whether it was Roger Sr. or Roger Jr. who was buried on 14 July 1625. One of the two, and Ellen, Anne, and baby Mary, apparently survived the epidemic.

Had Roger and Ellen not moved from St Magnus The Martyr parish to Whitechapel in 1623/24 the family might have fared better. A comparison of the parish burial records for both shows that St Magnus The Martyr was also hit, but not so hard. Also, had they stayed in St Magnus The Martyr and had one of the two Rogers still died, there is a better chance that we would know which, since many St Magnus The Martyr parish burial records contain more detail, such as "the sonne of ...," or "free of the mercers." C

We have racked our brains trying to find a way to determine which of the two Rogers died in 1625. No list of tombstone inscriptions for St Mary Whitechapel has been found, and of course the plague victims were likely buried in plague pits, anyways. No will or estate administration record has been found for Roger Terrill of London or Petersfield. FHL has no St Mary Whitechapel parish records available other than the baptism/marriage/burial registers; and probably, nothing else exists. One possibility, considering that we know Roger Sr. was a haberdasher (from the marriage record), is the Haberdasher Company records—and FHL has an extensive collection of copies of those, on microfilm. A search of a card index to registers of apprentice bindings, 1583-1591 and 1610-1630, yielded no "Terrills" at all, over either of the two periods. The bindings for the intervening period, 1591-1610, apparently have not been indexed—and to check through those records would require Herculean effort. One other Haberdashers' Company resource is available: the minute books of the Court of Assistants. We checked volume 1 for the period around and after 14 July 1625 to see if any mention was made of Roger Terrill, or his widow, but found nothing except an interesting reference to a Richard Terrill, who was appointed one of six Wardens of the Yeomanry on 4 July 1625. It's interesting to note that Roger Terrill b. 1592 had an uncle named Richard Terrill, christened 15 June 1569 in East Meon, county Southampton (now Hampshire). Click here to view a transcript (and the originals) of the Haberdashers' Company Court of Assistants minutes from July 1625 to the end of that year. D-G

We've also checked the previously mentioned London, England, Baptism, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 database for a record of Hellen or Ellen Layton's previous marrige (since she was a widow when she married Roger), to no avail. And we've checked it to see if Hellen/Ellen Terrill remarried sometime after 14 July 1625, but again found nothing. Perhaps something will turn up as the indexing progresses. DOR-Terrill member Terrill Hayes has pointed out that a lack of further baptism records for children of Roger and Ellen is a good indication that it was Roger Sr. who died in 1625.U Good point, but we've only just discovered these (St Magnus The Martyr) baptism records, and more in some other parish might soon turn up. The presence of such a record (indicating that it was Roger Sr. who lived) would provide a much firmer conclusion than the absence, which is unfortunate since what we hope to prove is that Roger Jr. survived. Note, however, the steady progression of children's baptisms, which suggests that we might find another baptism record dating about February 1625/6, perhaps outside of London, perhaps naming the father "Roger Terrill, deceased."

While searching through databases accessible from FHL for records pertaining to Roger Terrills of early 17th C. London, we came across some interesting apprenticeship records on Origins Network (—anyone can subscribe). Their British Origins collection contains a London Apprenticeship Abstracts 1442-1850 database, which produced two pertinent search result finds. These led to examination of London Vintners' Company records available at FHL, in our search for original records. The following transcriptions are from the Vinters' Company register of freedom admissions for the period 1602 to 1660:

"Quinto die Decembr[i]s 1609 {5th day of December 1609}" (JPEG, 551 KB)
"ffor p[re]senting of Roger Terrell apprentice . .}
to Thomas Wicher . . . . . . . . . . . . . . } xijd {12 pence}"
(ref. H)
"Tertio die Julij 1616 {3rd day of July 1616}" (JPEG, 540 KB)
"for making free of Roger Terrill . . }
ap[pre]ntice of Thomas Whicher . . } xxd {20 pence}"
(ref. J)
"Quarto die Septembr[i]s 1616 {4th day of September 1616}" (JPEG, 577 KB)
"~~~ die ~~ ~~~" {? (perhaps something like "same day from before"} (JPEG, 618 KB)
"for p[rese]nteing of Wm Whitcher apprentice to Roger Terrill -- xijd " (ref. K)

We found one other record, in the Vintners' Company apprentice bindings register for the period 1609 to 1666, which provides a little more detail on the third item above. We're uncertain of the underlined parts of our transcription and translation:

"Tertio die Julij 1616"
"Willia[m] Whitcher fils Thome Whitcher de civitat et
vinitar London po~ se appren Rogere Terrill civi
et vinitar london pro . . . . annis a ffesto sup~[ra]dict"
(JPEG, 771 KB)
(ref M)
"3 July 1616: William Whitcher, son of Thomas Whitcher, citizen and vintner of London, presented himself apprentice to Roger Terrill, citizen and vintner of London, for [<blank>] years from the feast abovesaid"

The "feast abovesaid" is "ffesto Nativitat ste Joh[ann]is Baptiste vltime p~dict", the Feast of the Nativity of St. John the Baptist, which was always celebrated on 24 June — "vltime p~[er]dict" may mean "to the end {of the apprenticeship period}, as said {in the indenture}." The recorder appears to have left blank space for the number of years of apprenticeship in every record.

It's odd that the record in the freedom admissions register is dated differently from that in the apprentice bindings register. The London Apprenticeship Abstracts 1442-1850 database gives the following abstract for this apprentice binding record: "William Whitcher son of Thomas citizen and vintner to Roger Terrill, 3 Jul. 1616, Vintners' Company." So, we have agreement with essentials. Roger Terrill's 1609 apprentice binding to Thomas Wicher is surely in this register too (since that same database contained an abstract of it), but we were unable to find it, because the register starts about 1609 and the early pages are badly damaged, and the microfilm is dark and blurry and just about impossible to read (and the records are in Latin). The abstract for that record reads, "Roger Terrell to Thomas Wicher, 5 Dec. 1609, Vintners' Company," so it's not likely that we would find additional information in the actual record.

So who was this Roger Terrill, citizen and vintner of London? DOR-Terrill contends that he was Roger Terrill, haberdasher of London, born 19 Nov. 1592 in Petersfield, who turned seventeen on 19 Nov. 1609 and was thus ready to start his apprenticeship on 5 Dec. Typically, apprentices served for seven years, from ages 17 to 24, although there was variation. We've mentioned that Roger Terrill's name did not show up in the Haberdashers' Company apprenticeship register index for the period 1610/11 to 1630 (it's unfortunate that this index does not cover the year 1609). We think this is because Roger Terrill, haberdasher, never apprenticed to a haberdasher. Below, we'll point you to Vintners' Company records which show that it was common for men to "translate" to other companies, as early as 1608-1610 and perhaps earlier. British Origins' About London Apprenticeship Abstracts 1442-1850 page tells us that after mid-17th C. "it became increasingly common (in some companies virtually universal) for members of a given livery company to practice another trade altogether." In Roger's case it may be that his uncle, a haberdasher, needed help, and offered Roger a good position. But what about Roger's apprentice, young William Wicher? Well, we don't know. Perhaps William decided not to go through with his apprenticeship. There are no other Vintners' Company index entries for him, other than the 1616 one, and there should have been one for when he was made free, in 1623. There was a William Wicher who married an Elizabeth Welsh, 24 Oct. 1619 at St Martin Ludgate, London.N We've also come across a William Whicher who married an Elizabeth Bookam, 25 Sep. 1620, in Petersfield, (Hampshire), and raised a family of three, and still lived in Petersfield as late as 1635.P Perhaps William Wicher decided to abandon his apprenticeship in order to marry. Regardless, it appears that sometime between 3 July 1616 and 7 Dec. 1618 Roger decided to give up the vintner trade and become a haberdasher. It's possible that he retained membership in the Vintners' Company. (If you are wondering what haberdashers and vintners were, click here.)

We've searched for further Vintners' Company records which might fill in the story (and confirm that this Roger died in July of 1625), but did not find any.R The Vintners' Co. court minutes on microfilm at FHL start from 1639; although there are indexes to court minutes covering the years starting from 1608, indicating that actual court minutes for the period 1608 to 1639 might be found at the LMA or the Guildhall Library, in London. We've checked the index for 1609 to 1631 (which is labeled "defective" in LMA documentation) and found that it contains no entries for the period 1612 to 1628, and not many entries altogether. It could be that the volume of court minutes for the period 1612-1628 does not exist (but we think it does)T. The index for 1608 to 1610, however, is not defective, and even though it contains no mention of Roger Terrill it is still very interesting. There is mention of a haberdasher who in February of 1609 wished to translate to the Vintners' Co., and of another haberdasher who in August of 1608 was fined by the Vintners' Co. for "lending pots" (a Vintners' Co. transgression). You can find in these records a Clothworker, a Counseller at Lawe, a Girdler, and a Cook who wished to join the Vintners' Co. A vintner who translated to the Barber Surgeons' Company actually practiced barber-surgeoning—he was consequently "molested by the profession," and sought redress through the Vintners' Co. Translating involved paying a fine. A Grocer in July of 1609 inquired the fee ( 10), lost interest temporarily, and later was willing to pay double for the privilege. It becomes apparent in reading through this index that masters with apprentices generally (if not universally) ran taverns—taverns which sold wine; so we can assume that Thomas Wicher, for whom Roger apprenticed, very likely ran such a tavern in the city or surrounds of London. Click here to view a transcript (and the originals) of some pages of this 1608-1610 index. S

But who was this Thomas Wicher? Many Vintners' Company records concerning him can be found via the freedom admissions register index. He began his own apprenticeship in January of 1589, and was made free in October of 1597. As a master, he took on his first apprentice in 1599, a second in 1601, and a third, George Cleggett, in late 1606, a couple of months after the first was made free. Roger Terrill became his apprentice the same day the second was made free: 5 Dec. 1609. On 4 Sep. 1610 Wicher took on yet another apprentice, a William Warham. So at that time there were three apprentices and we don't know how many servants and journeymen, all working for Thomas Wicher, master vintner. Roger Terrill would have worked closely with George Cleggett (perhaps three years his elder) and William Warham (perhaps a year younger than Roger). They were all learning "the art and mystery" of vintnering, and they were not permitted to reveal this art to non-vintners (and particularly not to "foreigners"). Thomas Wicher does not appear to have taken on any other apprentices. We've found two other records which might concern him: a Susanna Whicher, daughter of Thomas, was baptized 20 Sep. 1601 at St Magnus The Martyr; and a Thomas Whitcher was buried 15 Aug. 1625, at that parish.N So it might be that his tavern was on or near London Bridge. Beyond all this we know nothing more about him. He did not come from Petersfield; although there was a Robert Wicher baptized there in 1558; and a Francis Wicher in October, 1561.P We do not know if he came from East Meon, county Southampton, from whence Roger's father came to Petersfield.

At the moment we know no more about Roger Terrill b. 1592, either. And we know no more about Roger Terrill b. 1620, except that one or the other of these two Rogers of St Mary, Whitechapel parish, East End, was buried on 14 July 1625. We also have not been able to find any more records concerning Ellen and the surviving children. So, how to proceed? If you have any good suggestions we'd like to hear from you. There may be ways to learn more, and in particular to learn whether or not Roger Jr. survived the plague of 1625. For the present, however, we are stymied. {See postscript (23 Apr. 2012) at top.}

Incidentally, we mentioned in our 29 Apr. 2009 "Research Report: The Banks reference to Roger Terrill of Wapping and Copthall, 1621," that we did not find the name "Roger Terrill" on the 1621 lay subsidy assessment roll, when we checked the original roll in London. We concluded that Charles Edward Banks, or Elijah Ellsworth Brownell, who finished up Banks's work, might have been mistaken in referring to that particular roll, and that perhaps the 1624/25 lay subsidy assessment roll (the only other extant such roll from that decade—one which we did not check while in London) was the correct one. It now seems very likely that this is the case, since Roger Terrill b. 1592 was not in Whitechapel in 1621, but was in 1624/25, and so his name should have appeared on that list. If so, then this tells us that Roger Terrill and family lived in a part of St Mary, Whitechapel parish probably labeled "Copthall and Wappinge" on that roll (as it was labeled on the 1621 roll). This should pinpoint a small part of the parish, but at present we don't know where this part was.

Postscript (26 July 2011): We have finally learned that it is indeed the 1624/25 Ossulstone hundred subsidy roll that contains the name "Roger Terrell," as expected. For a full report on that, including what we've recently learned about the location of Copthall in "Wappinge & Copthall," see our follow-up article "Roger Terrell in the 1624/5 Ossulstone hundred subsidy roll."


A. Great Plague of London, Encyclopaedia Britannica,

B. London and the Great Plague of 1665, by Chris Trueman.

C. The St Magnus The Martyr and St. Mary, Whitechapel (East End—there was another St Mary, Whitechapel parish in Southwark) parish records can be browsed via's London, England, Baptism, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 database. St Mary, Whitechapel is in Tower Hamlets borough and St Magnus The Martyr is in City of London borough. The citations for these parish registers are: 1.) London Metropolitan Archives, Saint Mary, Whitechapel, Composite register: baptisms Nov 1558 - Oct 1645 (gap 1618-1621) and Aug - Nov 1860, marriages Dec 1558 - Feb 1642 (gap 1619-1621), burials Nov 1558 - Jun 1642 (gap 1619-1621), P93/MRY1, Item 001; and 2.) Guildhall, St Magnus the Martyr, Composite register: baptisms 1560/1 - 1719/20, marriages 1557/8 - 1712, burials 1560/1-1720/1, 1557/8 - 1720/1, P69/MAG/A/01/Ms 11361.

D. London Haberdashers' Company, card index to names in register of apprentice bindings other than in apprenticeship entries, 1583 - Jan. 1584/85, FHL BRITISH 1551120 item 2, which is a copy of Guildhall Library item Ms. 15862 (a card version of Ms. 15860).

E. London Haberdashers' Company, card index to apprentices in the register of apprentice bindings, 1583-1591, FHL BRITISH 1551160 item 4 (A - "Kittyn"), and 1551161 item 1 (the remainder), which is a copy of Guildhall Library item Ms. 15861 (a card version of Ms 15860/1).

F. London Haberdashers' Company, card index of apprentices in register of apprentice bindings, 1610/11-1630, FHL BRITISH 1551020 items 3 - 8 (item 8 covers SN to Z), which is a copy of Guildhall Library item Ms. 15863 (a card version of Ms 15860/4).

G. London Haberdashers Company, Court of Assistants minute books, vol. 1 (1582/3 - 1652), FHL BRITISH 1551003 item 3, which is a copy of Guildhall Library item Ms 15842/1.

H. London Vintners's Company, register of feedom admissions, 1589-1888, Guildhall Library vol. Ms. 15211/2, 1602-1660, p. 83. FHL BRITISH 1067991 item 2. Note: The FHL British Isles floor help personnel provided us the correct transcription and meaning of "xxd" and "xijd" in the accounting column.

J. Ibid., p. 135.

K. Ibid., pp. 137 (date) & 138.

M. London Vintners's Company, register of apprentice bindings. FHL BRITISH 1067994, which is a copy of Guildhall Library item Ms 15220/1 (vol. 1).

N.'s London, England, Baptisms, Marriage and Burials, 1539-1812 database, again.

P. Petersfield, Hampshire, parish register transcripts, 1558-1812, FHL BRITISH 1595859, item 7. The William Whicher records include his marriage and the baptisms of three children: 9 Oct. 1623, 16 Aug. 1630 and 3 May 1635.

R. Other Vintners' Co. items which we searched at FHL were Wardens Accounts, 1582-1616 and 1616-1636; Skidmores Charity, 1584-1665; and Will Book, 1442-1800. None of these appeared to contain any information of use to us for the purpose of establishing whether or not it was Roger Terrill Sr. who died in 1625.

S. London Vintners' Co., index to court minutes 1608-1610 (item 2), and 1609-1631 (item 3), FHL BRITISH 1067988; LMA Ms. 15202/1 (indexes to court minutes, Ms. 15201).

T. Chapter V (The Crucial Years: 1603-1660) of A History of the Vintners' Company, by Anne Crawford (London: Constable, 1977) extensively references Vintners MS 15,201/2, which is vol. 2 of the court minutes, Ms. 15201.

U. Email response to the initial release of this article from Terrill Hayes, 10 Nov. 2010.