Roger Tirrell, bapt. 19 Nov. 1592, Petersfield,
county Southampton (now Hampshire), son of Roger

by Conrad W. Terrill and Nancy Tyrrel Theodore, last updated 22 Apr. 2010

Note (9 Nov. 2010): We have learned a great deal more about this Roger Tirrell. See our article Roger Tirrell, baptized 9 Nov. 1620, St Magnus The Martyr, London for all the new information.

Note (23 Apr. 2012): We have learned more yet. See Roger Tirrell baptized 1620—the final chapter.

This Roger Terrill, we feel sure, is the one of the marriage record:

"Roger Terrill of London haberdasher and Hellen Layton widowe were married the viith of December 1618 by license from the ffaculties," St Botolph Bishopsgate (SBB). ( page image) (JPEG, 265 KB) [From database London, England, Baptisms, Marriage and Burials, 1538-1812, borough = City of London, parish = St Botolph Bishopsgate, year = 1558-1628, image 139 of 213, top left corner.] St Botolph Bishopsgate, also known as St Botolph-without-Bishopsgate, was located on the north side of London, just outside the wall, to the left, after you'd exited through the Bishopsgate entrance. Here's the church history web page. Since there were no "Terrill" christenings at St Botolph Bishopsgate from 1580 to 1630, this does not seem to have been Roger's parish. It may have been Hellen Layton's. [From IGI index, batch P001611, SBB christenings 1558-1690.]

By 1624 we think he was living in East Smithfield, in the parish of St Mary Whitechapel.

Christened 31 Oct. 1624, Mary, daughter of Roger and Ellyn Terrell. [From IGI index, batch C025571, christenings St Mary Whitechapel 1614-1637.] We browsed through this IGI index, looking for "Terrill" christenings, and did not find any others from 1614 to 1633, so either Roger & Ellyn did not stay long in this parish or they had no other children (who lived) during the time they did live here.

The record which ties this Roger Tirrell to Petersfield, county Southampton, is the following marriage license record:

June 26 [1624]: Peter Drapier, Clerk, of Terwicke, co Sussex, Bachelor, 30, and Barbara Tirrill, of Petersfield, co. South[amp]ton, Spinster, 21, her parents dead ; attested by her brother Roger Tirrill, of East Smithfield, par. St Mary, Whitechapel ; at St Mary, Whitechapel, or St Botolph, Aldgate, London.
>[From database London, England, Marriage Licenses, 1521-1869, from the book London Marriage Licenses, 1521-1869, ed. by Joseph Foster, from excerpts by the late Colonel [Joseph Lemuel] Chester [(1821-1882) ( page image)] (London: Bernard Quaritch, 1887), col. 420.]
[Allegations for Marriage Licenses issued by the Bishop of London, 1611 to 1828, extracted by (the late) Col. Joseph Lemuel Chester [1821-1882], LL.D., D.C.L., and edited by Geo. J. Armytage, F.S.A. (London: 1887), comprising vol. 26 (1887) of The Publications of The Harleian Society (est. 1869). (JPEG, 149 KB)]

The couple was married at St Mary Whitechapel the day after they obtained this license, perhaps in a double ceremony (with Peeter's brother? and his bride):

27 Jun. 1624: "Peeter Drapier & Barbrah Terrill(?)" ( page image) (JPEG, 142 KB)
27 Jun. 1624: "Wm Draper & Elizabeth Dixson"
[From database London, England, Baptisms, Marriage and Burials, 1538-1812, borough: Tower Hamlets, parish: St Mary Whitechapel, year: 1558-1643.]

Incidentally, before we move to Roger's ancestry, let us add that we believe this Roger Terrill is the one of the notorious Banks reference to "Roger Terrill of Wapping and Copthall, 1621." You can read all about this in our separate research report. (And now (26 July 2011) you can read about our resolution of that puzzle.) Charles E. Banks reportedly found this reference in the 1920s in a lay subsidy assessment list of Ossulstone hundred dating to 1621 (King James I was taxing lay people to subsidize his navy). Banks used this reference to assign our Roger1 Terrill (who settled in Milford, CT), a "parish of origin" of Wapping in his posthumously published (about 1937) Topographical Dictionary of English Emigrants to New England, 1620-1650. Banks liked to do this sort of thing—to make extrapolations based on records in order to provide people with good tips—which would have been OK if he had been more clear, concise, and specific about what he was doing. His practice has generated much confusion (which could easily have been avoided), and given many genealogists wrong turns. On the positive side, though, he certainly did an enormous amount of work, and he has made a great deal of ancient information available to family historians. In our case, however, we have checked this original scroll ourselves and did not find the name "Roger Terrill" on it. We did find, however, that "Copthall" and "Wappinge" appear to have been two parts of St Mary Whitechapel parish (they were two subheadings under the heading "Whitechapel' in a 1600 Ossulstone hundred lay subsidy assessment list). In its 1963 reprint of Banks's Topographical Dictionary, the Genealogical Publishing Company changed "Wapping" to "Stepney (Wapping)," for some reason. We can conclude that those descendants of Roger1 who believe he was born in 1605 in Stepney/Wapping are mixing up two different Roger Terrills. The Roger Tirrell christened in 1605 at St Giles Cripplegate would have been 16 years old in 1621—nowhere near old enough to have appeared on a lay subsidy assessment list. Roger Tirrell born 1592 in Petersfield, and haberdasher of London in 1624, however, would have been 29 years old in 1621, and thus very likely to appear on such a list, especially since he actually lived in St Mary Whitechapel parish. (We're wondering if Banks's mistake might have been that he cited the wrong Ossulstone hundred lay subsidy assessment list. There was another dated 1624 or 1625, which we have not checked, which could have been the one on which the name "Roger Terrill" appeared.)

Knowing that Roger Tirrill of East Smithfield, St Mary Whitechapel parish, and his sister Barbara were of Petersfield, county Southampton, we can trace his ancestry further. Nancy has in her records the following information:

Children of Roger and Ann (Lacie) Terrill, all born Petersfield, co. Southampton:
. Edith, b. 7 Mar 1589/90
. Anne, b. 29 Aug 1591
. Roger, b. 19 Nov 1592
. Anthony, b. 9 Jun 1594
. Jane, b. 12 Apr 1596
. Peter, b. 13 Sep 1601
. Barbara, b. Jan 1602/3

[Nancy thinks she probably copied this information years ago from fiche available at an LDS Family History Center. That would be LDS FHL fiche BRITISH 6344461, parish registers for Petersfield, 1558-1911. Another possibility, perhaps easier to order, is LDS FHL film BRITISH 1595859, item 7, Petersfield (Hampshire) parish register transcripts, 1558-1812. We have not been able to determine the IGI batch numbers (if they exist) for Petersfield Anglican Church.]

On 26 Jun. 1624 Barbara would have been 21, which is in agreement with the marriage license record. Roger, ten years older, was her oldest brother. The following records are from IGI indexes:

Roger Tirrell m. Anne Lacie, 26 Oct. 1589, East Meon, Hampshire
[IGI batch M145171 (1560-1753), film 1041261.]

East Meon christenings, IGI batch C145171 (1560-1850), film 104261:
John, son of Roger Tirrell, chr. 12 Apr. 1562
Willyam, son of Roger Tirrell, chr. 12 Aug. 1564
Roger, son of Roger Tirrell, chr. 24 Dec. 1565
Thomas, son of Roger Tirrell, chr. 28 Mar. 1568
Richard, son of Roger Tirrell, chr. 15 Jun. 1569

East Meon was then a hamlet or small village about 4 miles west of Petersfield, a market- town, both about 50 miles SW of London.

John E. Tyrrell, Chairman of the Tyrrell Family History Society (England), wrote two articles for the Society's newsletter in 1982 and 1983 on the Tyrrells of East Meon. His initial research, reported in TFHS newsletter vol. 5, no. 4, pp. 86-87, was based on the Parish Records of All Saints Church, East Meon, at the Winchester Record Office, from which he produced a "tree" (and he was careful not to guarantee its accuracy). The tree starts with Roger Tirrell (bur. 10 Nov. 1576) and his wife Joan Crowse (b. 1527). Their children are given as Margaret (m. William Fowler, 19 Jul. 1596), Constance (m. Joseph Fielder, 28? Sep. 1586, John (Butcher, bapt. 12 Apr. 1562, bur. 1627), Roger (bapt. 24 Dec. 1565, m. Ann Lacie, 26 Oct. 1589), Peter (m. Marcie Gallawart, 10 May 1585), Thomas (bapt. 28 Mar. 1568), Richard (bapt. 15 Jun. 1569), and William (bur. 30 Aug. 1564). The only Tyrrell line continued in John E.'s East Meon tree is that of son Peter, who is apparently the only son who stayed in East Meon. John E. followed up with research based on Probate Records, Winchester Consistory Court Records, Workhouse Records and Hearth Tax Records, on some of which he reported in TFHS newsletter vol. 6, no. 1, pp. 6-9.. The only part of interest to us here is John E.'s transcript of the will (written 20 Jan. 1575) of Roger Terrell. The will mentions wife Johan, sons Johne, Roger and Thomas, daughters Constance, Margaret, Johan (wife of Richard Shallett the younger) and Elizabeth (wife of Thomas Isemonger). The legacies bequeathed to the sons were to be delivered unto them when they reached age 21. Wife Johan and son Peter were named as executors. The will mentions lands in "Catrinton" (Catherington, about five miles south of East Meon) in the countie of Southampton. John E. Tyrrell mentioned further that he found in Victoria Hampshire History a reference to a Roger Tyrell interest in Catherington dated 1199, as well as a number of later references to Tyrell interests in Catherington. So it could be that Tyrrells lived continuosuly for many centuries in the East Meon area.

So son William died a few weeks after his birth, in 1564. And son Richard died prior to age six, since he was not mentioned in the 1575 will. Peter, who married in 1585, was likely the eldest son. In January of 1575 (bear in mind that the new year started on 25 March at this time), John was thirteen, Roger was ten, and Thomas was seven. Daughters Johan and Elizabeth, married by January of 1575, were perhaps the eldest children, although they needn't have been much older than Peter and John.

All the baptism, marriage and burial records above can very likely be found on LDS FHL film BRITISH 1041261, items 13-16, Church of England, East Meon, parish registers (baptisms 1560-1812, marriages 1560-1753, burials 1560-1812). Son Peter and daughters Johan, Elizabeth, Margaret and Constance were likely born before 1560, the start of these records. The source of the 1527 birth year for Joan (Crowse) Tirrell is a mystery. If it were from a tombstone it seems that there should have been a death year to go with it. The source of her maiden name is also unknown to us.

So the line of descent would have been:
Roger Terrill (bur. 1576) & Joan Crowse (b. 1527)
. Roger Terrill (chr. 1565, East Meon) & Ann Lacie, m 1589, East Meon
. . Roger Terrill (b. 1592, Petersfield) & Hellen Layton, m. 1618, St Botolph Bishopsgate, London

There are unsourced IGI index entries which indicate that Roger's and Barbara's father, Roger II, might have died just a few years before Barbara's 1624 marriage. According to these entries, Roger Terrill, son of Roger & Anne, was mentioned in wills dated: 1) 15 Aug. 1621, of Petersfield, Hampshire; 2) 11 Feb. 1623; and 3) 27 Dec. 1620. It's possible that one of these items of information might be correct. They need checking. Possible sources are LDS FHL films BRITISH 873253 (item 6), 1279062 (item 1), 187510, 187561 (item 1), and 1565917 (item 9). Some of these are indexes and some are original wills. For more information check the LDS FHL Catalog—topic: England, Hampshire, East Meon - Probate records.